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Upcoming rogue changes.


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#1 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:51 AM

Combat
  • Combat Rogues were outputting too much damage. Much, much too much damage.
    • Removed Hack'n'Slash
    • Added Energetic Recovery: While Slice and Dice is active, your attacks have a chance equal to your accuracy to restore 1% of your health
Considering i save slice and dice for 'hard' fights, like portas fury, i'd hit 11 times averagely in a fight.
I have 377 max health, 27% accuracy +20% slice and dice.

So vs a fight against porta (who propably fights back since he's not a retard who stands still while I shoot his face) It would heal 19,4909 health. I usually get to use slice and dice once in a round, and it's unlikely i get to deal with portas that often.

Even after the nerf i expect to be able to 5hit an average player since they let me get too close, (introducing fun damages i got vs bots and inf, inf being on his dk:
Damage Given to "Troy" - 243 in 1 hit
Damage Given to "Adrian" - 405 in 3 hits
Damage Given to "InFeC†Ed++" - 299 in 4 hits

Basically, whatever you do, consider carefully what you're doing - don't imply another useless talent just because you see a spec being played by two players (katze and me, afaik)


Anyways,

If you for some reason want to imply something like this let me remind you:

Combat has the least mobility and the worst stealthiness of all rogues - they have the least room for error.


I personally do not think that 19 hp per round is worth a talent point from me, but then again, my opinion is just 50% of the combat rogue players opinions.

I also refuse to believe this will strike to the actual 'problem' with combat rogues.


(also note that katze and I both have 1300+ gear rating on our rogues)



(On the positive side though, I'll give you ups for finally paying attention to the damage, which i've cried about for..what.. 2 years? :D)

Edited by Tas, 29 April 2014 - 01:40 AM.

[12:10] Winters:back in my days
of being young and handsome
[12:10] Father Tios: xD
[12:10] Winters: now im only handsome
<.<


21:29 - #Stinkyfax: i'm sending you my sad waves

#2 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:34 AM

If some one is amazed, not knowing how combat has less mobility/smaller escape chances let me explain what a half-decent player would do as an example:


map: de_dust2
situation: T's have gone b every 35 rounds so far. 99.99999% chance they will do it this time around too
Actions: Place a shadowgate in a smart place to guarantee escape.
Go wait in a good spot in b. Pick one of all those who come in (propably the one who tries to plant the bomb), kill, escape.
Wait for the cd to cool off, use vanish to kill one or two more, escape using shadowgate again, or fight to the end depending what your teammates have done so far.

Now what a combat rogue does in similar situation:

Place yourself in a hard to see spot, which not many people will peak in (for example outside b, where you can pick the one or two guys who try to have an aim fight with the ct's who are coming from ct spawn)
kill him/them and run like hell. Run to the side where your team is not engaging from, and flank the enemies and play till the end.

Option two: Place yourself on the ROUTE from where the enemies will run, but not in their final destination. Estimate who is the last one in their team, pick him off, and run like hell.


Basically, difference here is:

Combat will rely on picking out those who are separate, or people who are incapable of paying attention to them - 1 v 1 assassination, using vanish/stealth to get the upper hand by attacking first and fast.

Subtlety will pick one target from a stack (or anyone who dares to come near him for that matter), not needing to worry about the targets team, because he will have the escape route ready - just press your shadowgate key. Better players can use shadowgate to relocate them for a tactical advantage, causing you to constantly be behind the enemies.

Assassination players usually have two styles:
Either they go all in using ss..
Or they play it smart going in using vanish (or stealth), killing their target and maybe a secondary target. Am i in trouble? no? good.
yes? shadowstep away.



(and i am for the combat damage nerfs.. Just don't make them retarded...)


The reason i also dislike the talent currently being introduced (nothing personal hani or chip or whoever made it ), is that the amount of heal relies on attack speed.. On a spec that doesn't care about stacking attack speed?

The spec that is using swords instead of daggers, sacrificing attack speed.

Edited by Tas, 29 April 2014 - 03:41 AM.

[12:10] Winters:back in my days
of being young and handsome
[12:10] Father Tios: xD
[12:10] Winters: now im only handsome
<.<


21:29 - #Stinkyfax: i'm sending you my sad waves

#3 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:57 AM

View PostTas, on 29 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

If some one is amazed, not knowing how combat has less mobility/smaller escape chances let me explain what a half-decent player would do as an example:


map: de_dust2
situation: T's have gone b every 35 rounds so far. 99.99999% chance they will do it this time around too
Actions: Place a shadowgate in a smart place to guarantee escape.
Go wait in a good spot in b. Pick one of all those who come in (propably the one who tries to plant the bomb), kill, escape.
Wait for the cd to cool off, use vanish to kill one or two more, escape using shadowgate again, or fight to the end depending what your teammates have done so far.

Now what a combat rogue does in similar situation:

Place yourself in a hard to see spot, which not many people will peak in (for example outside b, where you can pick the one or two guys who try to have an aim fight with the ct's who are coming from ct spawn)
kill him/them and run like hell. Run to the side where your team is not engaging from, and flank the enemies and play till the end.

Option two: Place yourself on the ROUTE from where the enemies will run, but not in their final destination. Estimate who is the last one in their team, pick him off, and run like hell.


Basically, difference here is:

Combat will rely on picking out those who are separate, or people who are incapable of paying attention to them - 1 v 1 assassination, using vanish/stealth to get the upper hand by attacking first and fast.

Subtlety will pick one target from a stack (or anyone who dares to come near him for that matter), not needing to worry about the targets team, because he will have the escape route ready - just press your shadowgate key. Better players can use shadowgate to relocate them for a tactical advantage, causing you to constantly be behind the enemies.

Assassination players usually have two styles:
Either they go all in using ss..
Or they play it smart going in using vanish (or stealth), killing their target and maybe a secondary target. Am i in trouble? no? good.
yes? shadowstep away.



(and i am for the combat damage nerfs.. Just don't make them retarded...)


The reason i also dislike the talent currently being introduced (nothing personal hani or chip or whoever made it ), is that the amount of heal relies on attack speed.. On a spec that doesn't care about stacking attack speed?

The spec that is using swords instead of daggers, sacrificing attack speed.

What I got from this post is that different rogue specs have different playstyles... Yes. Yes they do.
Also, the chance on the new talent is equal to your ACCURACY, not ATTACK SPEED.

However, I don't agree with removing hack 'n slash. I feel like it should've been modified so that it doesn't proc other skills and it's damage is based off of the hit that procced it(No more bodyshots for 20 that proc hack 'n slash crit sinister strike for 70+).
12:12 PM - Porta: tas is pony faggot
12:12 PM - Porta: dont trust him
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PacmaN :   BITCH I GOT A POCKET FULL OF SUNSHINE

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#4 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:26 AM

View PostSirchipnsalsa, on 29 April 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

What I got from this post is that different rogue specs have different playstyles... Yes. Yes they do.
Also, the chance on the new talent is equal to your ACCURACY, not ATTACK SPEED.

However, I don't agree with removing hack 'n slash. I feel like it should've been modified so that it doesn't proc other skills and it's damage is based off of the hit that procced it(No more bodyshots for 20 that proc hack 'n slash crit sinister strike for 70+).

The chance is equal to your accuracy.

However, it does not have a limited amount of hits - therefore it scales from attack speed.

Since more attacks = more heals.

(read, each individual attack you land has a chance equal to your accuracy stat, to heal you for 1% of your maximum health. Since with 110% attack speed you shoot 10% faster than you would with 100% attack speed, if you hit the same percentage of the hits, you will land 11 hits with 110% attack speed when with  100 you would land 10. This means you have a, say, 50% chance (with 50 accuracy) to heal once more with a 10% higher attack speed (in this specific scenario)

Edited by Tas, 29 April 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[12:10] Winters:back in my days
of being young and handsome
[12:10] Father Tios: xD
[12:10] Winters: now im only handsome
<.<


21:29 - #Stinkyfax: i'm sending you my sad waves

#5 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:07 PM

View PostSirchipnsalsa, on 29 April 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

I feel like it should've been modified so that it doesn't proc other skills and it's damage is based off of the hit that procced it(No more bodyshots for 20 that proc hack 'n slash crit sinister strike for 70+).
That doesn't differ at all from a regular damagemulti though, and Combat Rogues already have one; Master of Basics.
If Combat Rogues are left underpowered after this change, the first thing that'll be done is giving Master of Basics a buff.
"You're so retarded that you shouldn't go to sleep; you might forget how to breathe" - Wenneth Keld

#6 OFFLINE   Porta

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:37 PM

didint read whole post yet, but why you dont do it like ***** as a combat?


Just facerush whole team and just kill them all with just 1 clip?

Quote

*DEAD* Evander : well, a little hack isn't a bad thing



[WC] Klashnekoff dealt 240% damage (140% KPR, 0% Low LVL)
[WC] (Your level: 85, Server average: 62, Klashnekoff's level: 85)
[WC] (Temporary Debug info). KPR INFO: kills - 9, rounds - 2, KPR penalty 30

^ not funny

#7 OFFLINE   Bill

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:06 PM

^ Porta's life is sooo easy :D

#8 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:46 PM

View PostBill, on 29 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

^ Porta's life is sooo easy :D
Oh, you have no idea. He has to keep reminding me and probably few others every now and then that his Rogue needs more attack speed, lest we forget. Takes such a toll on him!
;)
"You're so retarded that you shouldn't go to sleep; you might forget how to breathe" - Wenneth Keld

#9 OFFLINE   Porta

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

View PostArioni, on 29 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Oh, you have no idea. He has to keep reminding me and probably few others every now and then that his Rogue needs more attack speed, lest we forget. Takes such a toll on him!
;)

Im just mad about AS nerfs all the time, first i had 190% AS with procs, now i can only do 170% :((

Quote

*DEAD* Evander : well, a little hack isn't a bad thing



[WC] Klashnekoff dealt 240% damage (140% KPR, 0% Low LVL)
[WC] (Your level: 85, Server average: 62, Klashnekoff's level: 85)
[WC] (Temporary Debug info). KPR INFO: kills - 9, rounds - 2, KPR penalty 30

^ not funny

#10 OFFLINE   Bill

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostPorta, on 30 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:



Im just mad about AS nerfs all the time, first i had 190% AS with procs, now i can only do 170% :(/>(
They all hate u, they won't stop nerfing ur rogue until it will have 90 AS :-D

I played combat just for while, it was too paper for me :-X




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