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#21 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:05 PM

View Postdjango, on 01 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Yeah but in wow ele's mastery is overlord which is the same as echo. And before MOP/Late Cata it was Ele ever since pre BC. Honestly it would fit ele much better and enh could get lightning shield or something idk.
This isn't WoW. You're right that it probably isn't 100% fitting for enhancement, but they already have a large problem. Too much damage with existing talents, so we can't give more damage talents. So then we made some tankiness talents. Then they were too tanky while having high damage. Reworked it into echo of elements and now it's more utility than straight up buffs to anything.
How would you implement lightning shield? Get shot, deal damage? There's already a talent that does that(Counterstrike). Sometimes use a lightning orb to deal additional dmg? Just more damage on a class that is already probably the highest dps class. We've thought about this before, it just doesn't really work.
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#22 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:36 PM

so how about make it elemental, and allow it to only duplicate shocks...?


E*

"Your shocks have a chance of x% to be cast twice"

Edited by Tas, 01 May 2014 - 04:37 PM.

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#23 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:55 PM

View PostTas, on 01 May 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

so how about make it elemental, and allow it to only duplicate shocks...?


E*

"Your shocks have a chance of x% to be cast twice"
When Elemental has 3 spells that aren't shocks and its playstyle has shifted more towards kiting, I don't think that is such a good idea.
There's really no reason to move the talent atm, apart from the argument "that's how it is in WoW".
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#24 OFFLINE   django

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:59 PM

View PostSirchipnsalsa, on 01 May 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

This isn't WoW. You're right that it probably isn't 100% fitting for enhancement, but they already have a large problem. Too much damage with existing talents, so we can't give more damage talents. So then we made some tankiness talents. Then they were too tanky while having high damage. Reworked it into echo of elements and now it's more utility than straight up buffs to anything.
How would you implement lightning shield? Get shot, deal damage? There's already a talent that does that(Counterstrike). Sometimes use a lightning orb to deal additional dmg? Just more damage on a class that is already probably the highest dps class. We've thought about this before, it just doesn't really work.

Could make a talent for an extra .5 sec on earth shock silence? I mean almost anybody will agree Ele really doesnt have a place as it's really weak. As for the lightning shield talent forget about that. And since people complain about mana problems with ele give resto earth shield and give ele water shield. I mean unless you really only plan on making enh the most "viable" dps spec on shaman. Imo it should be almost like a warrior type of deal were ele does more single bullet damage and enh is if you wanna rush up in their face even if that is the case right now enh can still hit 100+ dmg hses with p90 which is ridiculous and enh can still probably dish out more single target dmg regardless due to having more AP.
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 se

#25 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:11 PM

View PostFossen, on 01 May 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Well then again, that is the only spell we have. If we were to compare it to other classes
i.e Warlock who has 100damage chaos bolt+100damage shadow bolt+30-40damage instant immolate.
That optional 3*60 hit isnt that much. But yeah having the chance of it proccing unlimited is pretty op

100 damage Chaos Bolt [Critical]
My own warlock does 100+ crits and 65-70dmg normal chaosbolts, same goes with shadowbolt.

If you so want 100 dmg flat non crit Chaos and Shadow bolt, be my guest and suggest it xD
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#26 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:21 PM

View PostArioni, on 01 May 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

When Elemental has 3 spells that aren't shocks and its playstyle has shifted more towards kiting, I don't think that is such a good idea.
There's really no reason to move the talent atm, apart from the argument "that's how it is in WoW".

Well kiting isn't usually very useful since there's multiple players, the objective, and a limited amount of time.. (Oh look, I can't run anywhere cos they are everywhere.. Also the bomb is exploding in 20 seconds...)

Not to mention heals on multiple classes.

Maybe building elemental towards being able to siege (totems work well for this - if they are available...) could make them find their place on the map again?

Since strong siege usually serves a good use; it is effective for taking control over objectives (say, bombsites).

Edited by Tas, 01 May 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[12:10] Winters:back in my days
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#27 OFFLINE   django

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:25 PM

View PostTas, on 01 May 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Well kiting isn't usually very useful since there's multiple players, the objective, and a limited amount of time.. (Oh look, I can't run anywhere cos they are everywhere.. Also the bomb is exploding in 20 seconds...)

Not to mention heals on multiple classes.

Maybe building elemental towards being able to siege (totems work well for this - if they are available...) could make them find their place on the map again?

Since strong siege usually serves a good use; it is effective for taking control over objectives (say, bombsites).

Imo the recent post i just made aint a bad idea. But I dont like the totems idea because it basically makes the class need totems for every fight so if the enemy team has a rogue or mage rushing you're forced to try to drop your totems and yet they can still be naded very easily i think its best to not make a class rely on totems.
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 se

#28 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:04 PM

View Postdjango, on 01 May 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Could make a talent for an extra .5 sec on earth shock silence? I mean almost anybody will agree Ele really doesnt have a place as it's really weak. As for the lightning shield talent forget about that. And since people complain about mana problems with ele give resto earth shield and give ele water shield. I mean unless you really only plan on making enh the most "viable" dps spec on shaman. Imo it should be almost like a warrior type of deal were ele does more single bullet damage and enh is if you wanna rush up in their face even if that is the case right now enh can still hit 100+ dmg hses with p90 which is ridiculous and enh can still probably dish out more single target dmg regardless due to having more AP.
A 0.5 sec longer silence as a T4?...

Resto already has earth shield and there is already a talent AND a glyph for water shield, btw.

Also doing 100+ dmg headshots with p90 is an exaggeration. You'd likely need every proc on a squishy target to hit that high with P90, which in WoWmod only does 70%(IIRC, can't check atm) damage. It's not like they 3-4 hit someone with a P90. But yes, they do a lot of damage.
I've personally tested enhancement shaman vs. elemental shaman. They do similar damage, but elemental shaman has mana problems(you can kill probably 2-3 people a round max). 3 people is a LOT, by the way... In DM you would probably be a bit disappointed with ele shaman, but in normal play it's fine.
Elemental shaman is a bit easier to do well with if you have difficulties aiming because the majority of your damage comes from shocks and manual cast spells which don't require stellar aim to hit with. Enhancement is better at chaining kills and only really uses mana for healing and occasionally totems. They're different specs that do different things.
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#29 OFFLINE   django

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:08 PM

View PostSirchipnsalsa, on 01 May 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

A 0.5 sec longer silence as a T4?...

Resto already has earth shield and there is already a talent AND a glyph for water shield, btw.

Also doing 100+ dmg headshots with p90 is an exaggeration. You'd likely need every proc on a squishy target to hit that high with P90, which in WoWmod only does 70%(IIRC, can't check atm) damage. It's not like they 3-4 hit someone with a P90. But yes, they do a lot of damage.
I've personally tested enhancement shaman vs. elemental shaman. They do similar damage, but elemental shaman has mana problems(you can kill probably 2-3 people a round max). 3 people is a LOT, by the way... In DM you would probably be a bit disappointed with ele shaman, but in normal play it's fine.
Elemental shaman is a bit easier to do well with if you have difficulties aiming because the majority of your damage comes from shocks and manual cast spells which don't require stellar aim to hit with. Enhancement is better at chaining kills and only really uses mana for healing and occasionally totems. They're different specs that do different things.

It looks like to me that you just explained that enh is better. I've asked multiple people ingame which spec is better it's always enh they say because if you dont have good placement of totems you're dead anybody would agree that ele is the worst out of the 3 specs.

btw echo isnt a t4 talent so no the .5 second extra silence wouldnt be t4 lava lash would stay t4
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 sec
[WC] Echo of the Elements
[WC] You cast Healing Wave on Django and restore 33 hp with additional 27 armor for 30 se

#30 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:31 PM

View Postdjango, on 01 May 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

It looks like to me that you just explained that enh is better. I've asked multiple people ingame which spec is better it's always enh they say because if you dont have good placement of totems you're dead anybody would agree that ele is the worst out of the 3 specs.

btw echo isnt a t4 talent so no the .5 second extra silence wouldnt be t4 lava lash would stay t4
Ele is the worst spec atm, there's no questioning that.
I still do think that many people play it wrong though.
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#31 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:41 PM

View PostArioni, on 01 May 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Ele is the worst spec atm, there's no questioning that.
I still do think that many people play it wrong though.

How so ?
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#32 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:43 PM

View PostRaging, on 01 May 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

How so ?
The few that I've seen still focus on shocks as their main damage, this was a while ago though. Basically I think kiting with totems is the best method and trying to apply Lava Burst every two seconds.
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#33 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

View PostArioni, on 01 May 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

The few that I've seen still focus on shocks as their main damage, this was a while ago though. Basically I think kiting with totems is the best method and trying to apply Lava Burst every two seconds.

So pretty much Aflli lock style shoot and kite with placing some totems in choke points (DD2 doulbe doors)
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#34 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:32 PM

View PostRaging, on 01 May 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

So pretty much Aflli lock style shoot and kite with placing some totems in choke points (DD2 doulbe doors)
Eh, more mid-range than long-range like Affliction Shaman. Shocks are still useful and you still have to proc Lava Burst somehow (which requires a shock anyway).
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#35 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:50 PM

View PostArioni, on 01 May 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

Eh, more mid-range than long-range like Affliction Shaman. Shocks are still useful and you still have to proc Lava Burst somehow (which requires a shock anyway).

GG getting those mats for glyph when I can't even farm without people crying " Scrub luck" or other form of " you suck at playing " verbs
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#36 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:09 PM

View PostRaging, on 01 May 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

GG getting those mats for glyph when I can't even farm without people crying " Scrub luck" or other form of " you suck at playing " verbs
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#37 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:12 PM

Sacrifising same professions items to lvl said professions would be amazing :P
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#38 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:22 PM

View PostArioni, on 01 May 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

The few that I've seen still focus on shocks as their main damage, this was a while ago though. Basically I think kiting with totems is the best method and trying to apply Lava Burst every two seconds.

There's multiple ways to play ele.. I tried all of them (since elemental used to be one of my favorites, i wanted to see if it still could be that).. Caster, Totem master, Shock treatment...

Totems cost a lot of mana, and usually you get 2 sets of totems before you die (or oom).. that is if the enemies arent total retards and dont shoot them first. Or if you get them in a spot where they can hit through the wall (b bombsite, below ct spawn, a long double doors)

Caster is just bad in general.

Shocks seemed to be as decent as totems, but required frost shock glyph.

I was running my shaman with 73e with int chants (+ some items that had higher int than the 73e's, at least some pvp epics i recall)


(but to take into account, i played my ele shammy before the shock changes, like the flame shock...)

Edited by Tas, 01 May 2014 - 11:27 PM.

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[12:10] Father Tios: xD
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#39 OFFLINE   Arioni

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:25 PM

View PostTas, on 01 May 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

There's multiple ways to play ele.. I tried all of them (since elemental used to be one of my favorites, i wanted to see if it still could be that).. Caster, Totem master, Shock treatment...

Totems cost a lot of mana, and usually you get 2 sets of totems before you die (or oom).. that is if the enemies arent total retards and dont shoot them first. Or if you get them in a spot where they can hit through the wall (b bombsite, below ct spawn, a long double doors)

Caster is just bad in general.

Shocks seemed to be as decent as totems, but required frost shock glyph.

I was running my shaman with 73e with int chants (+ some items that had higher int than the 73e's, at least some pvp epics i recall)
Yeah, most issues have been related to mana so far. I'll be giving Elemental Shamans some goodies soon, but higher priority stuff for now <:
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#40 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:46 PM

[WC] You cast Frost Shock  to red#buyin1cabbage and deal 26 damage + slow down (Affected by: Critical)
[WC] You cast Earth Shock  to red#buyin1cabbage and deal 17 damage + 1.5 sec silence
[WC] You cast Flame Shock and deal 21 damage + 7  dmg per tick to red#buyin1cabbage
[WC] You cast Earth Shock  to red#buyin1cabbage and deal 26 damage + 1.5 sec silence (Affected by: Critical)
[

Used with 92 spell power, vs a 10% damage reduction - hybrid elemental enh build to get more sp.

[WC] You dealt 100% damage (0% KPR, 0% Low LVL)
[WC] red#buyin1cabbage dealt 100% damage (0% KPR, 0% Low LVL)
[

In build i took 10 points in ele, maxing shock damage, and everything in enhancement for dps.(10 11 0)
(no stormstrike)
[12:10] Winters:back in my days
of being young and handsome
[12:10] Father Tios: xD
[12:10] Winters: now im only handsome
<.<


21:29 - #Stinkyfax: i'm sending you my sad waves




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