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Pally vs shammy dmg


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#1 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

So , since you guys looked my topic, but here it is again and im not talking bullcrap. We tested it a litle.

Sewa vs me.

He is lvl 84 now me lvl 85 when I recorded I even had 1:1 kpr and he something like 3:1

He uses ak and me too it was dm.

he got 41 atk power vs 70 atk power

667 armor vs 891 armor

So I cannot 100 percent confirm this is base dmg but I noticed some round I get hsed , only hsed no other procs around 80 dmg and I think thats when rockbiter is turned on

[WC]  You deal  46  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot )
[WC]   Sewa <3彡  deals  58  damage to You (Affected by:  Headshot )

[WC]  You cast  Flash Heal  on  Stabby Joe   and restore  45  hp.
[WC]   This spell is on a cooldown.  5.8  sec is left.
[WC]   This spell is on a cooldown.  3.3  sec is left.
[WC]   This spell is on a cooldown.  5.8  sec is left.
[WC]  You deal  11  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Power Torrent )
[WC]  Your  Word of Glory  has healed you for  11  hp.
[WC]  You deal  38  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot, Parried Attack, Critical )
[WC]   Sewa <3彡  deals  58  damage to You (Affected by:  Headshot, Lava Lash )
[WC]   This spell is on a cooldown.  8.4  sec is left.
[WC]   Sewa <3彡  deals  19  damage to You (Affected by:  Windfury )
[WC]  Your  Word of Glory  has healed you for  11  hp.
[WC]  You deal  55  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot, Critical )
[WC]   Eye for an Eye  deals  4  damage to  Sewa <3彡
[WC]   Sewa <3彡  deals  22  damage to You (Affected by:  Critical )
[WC]  Your  Word of Glory  has healed you for  11  hp.
[WC]  You deal  55  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot, Critical )
[WC]   Sewa <3彡  deals  58  damage to You (Affected by:  Headshot, Mongoose )
[WC]  You deal  26  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot, Parried Attack )
[WC]  You deal  0  damage to  Sewa <3彡  (Affected by:  Headshot, Blocked )
[WC]   Eye for an Eye  deals  1  damage to  Sewa <3彡


Here is were rockbiter is turned on sry, dont have more but when I have more console figures ill post them, but yesterday I noticed it alot playing vs him again weapon was ak.

[WC] Sewa <3彡 deals 74 damage to You (Affected by: Headshot)

So there are two explanitions, either the dmg for pally is fcked or shamy gets a bonus, or rockbiter itself is bugged and giving sometimes another crazy 20-30 dmg extra.

May be can some calculate what the hs should be and if the above figure are right, with 29 more atk power and more armor i definetly should make higher dmg hs than him, and saying rockbiter is the answer would mean it makes a difference than prolly 50-60 dmg which is alot for such a lowbie spell.

#2 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:50 PM

First of all, afaik AK has more base damage at least on short range, so just use 2x same weapons and same range. And then we get to the part where we need to know your physical reduction, magic reduction and the AP of Sewa (which was already provided) so Hanii can make a beautiful calculation on what is going on.
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
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#3 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:53 PM

wookie infact , I just remembered it was dm and I had ak too , my fault i had it wrong. I htink he had ak too if not well the figures even more wrong. The 74 dmg hs he did with m4, with ak he will do over 80 dmg I have seen it.

#4 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:00 PM

It's a safe bet to say that the person you were fighting has Imp. Rockbiter weapons (for having Lava Lash in an attack message, which could be a bug?), so he deals 25% physical and 75% magical in his damage, meaning that your armor difference is near irrelevant. Compare your magic reduction to his physical reduction and you should get closer to the truth. Oh and, remember that Ench shamans have Flurry, for one (increases dmg for a short while when critical hit occurs, stacks).
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
- Cave Johnson

#5 OFFLINE   Porta

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:04 PM

Where is his spell dmg? why you no tell that?

Quote

*DEAD* Evander : well, a little hack isn't a bad thing



[WC] Klashnekoff dealt 240% damage (140% KPR, 0% Low LVL)
[WC] (Your level: 85, Server average: 62, Klashnekoff's level: 85)
[WC] (Temporary Debug info). KPR INFO: kills - 9, rounds - 2, KPR penalty 30

^ not funny

#6 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:13 PM

View PostPorta, on 06 January 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

Where is his spell dmg? why you no tell that?
54 sp
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
- Cave Johnson

#7 OFFLINE   stinkyfax

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:32 PM

Shhh, you can't even imagine the power and remorseless of people staying behind secret paladin's conspiracy.

What I want the most is give you an access to code, and let you spend as much time as you want searching for "if Paladin then damage = 50%", but I already know the outcome. Moreover, giving a source code to demoted admin is like passing you a handgun and a signed paper that I allow you shooting me.
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#8 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:46 PM

*sigh*

I would normally just lock this but you'll probably just make a new thread in a day or two.

Do another test, give me the magic resist of both of you, the dmg reduction of both of you, the ap, sp, armor pen, spell pen, attack speed, resilience of both of you and I'll show you why a dps class does more damage than a tank, which is an extremely elementary concept that you seem to fail to grasp.
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#9 OFFLINE   stinkyfax

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:53 PM

Damage handling procedure is same for any class.
Tristen: Son of a monkey.

#10 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

View Poststinkyfax, on 06 January 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Damage handling procedure is same for any class.
Right, I meant the differences between a dps character(especially one with 75% magic damage on normal hits and spell pen) and a tank character that would cause the dps character to do more damage.
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#11 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:13 PM

sirch I have more dps and and more armor. The point you guys miss out either rockbiter is bugged,  when activated dealing around 50 dmg to me and sometimes 80dmg, or it was as said no rockbiter and shamy still does somehow more hs dmg.

Shouldnt be hs dmg based on atk power and armor ? And if spell dmg come into i got 107 spell dmg nearly double than him


It might be the 20% shield reduction dmg I have using a shield but still it seems weird.

#12 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

View PostStabby Joe, on 06 January 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

sirch I have more dps and and more armor. The point you guys miss out either rockbiter is bugged,  when activated dealing around 50 dmg to me and sometimes 80dmg, or it was as said no rockbiter and shamy still does somehow more hs dmg.

Shouldnt be hs dmg based on atk power and armor ? And if spell dmg come into i got 107 spell dmg nearly double than him
The base damage by both parties go ~100?, meaning that the shaman gets to block flatly more by having higher physical dmg % than you have as your physical & magical reductions, even if you have a small edge in attack power. AND there are talents in Ench tree that will not play a message even if they affect the damage.
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
- Cave Johnson

#13 OFFLINE   Sirchipnsalsa

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

View PostStabby Joe, on 06 January 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

sirch I have more dps and and more armor. The point you guys miss out either rockbiter is bugged,  when activated dealing around 50 dmg to me and sometimes 80dmg, or it was as said no rockbiter and shamy still does somehow more hs dmg.

Shouldnt be hs dmg based on atk power and armor ? And if spell dmg come into i got 107 spell dmg nearly double than him
Rockbiter makes his gun damage do 75% spell damage. Meaning only 25% of the damage is affected by your armor, the rest is affected by your resistance.
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#14 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:53 PM

so why does rockbiter vary from 50 to 80 just hs only. May be console not showing all procs? or rockbiter over procing

and his basic hs with no rockbiter should be nowhere near my hs dmg, it should be around 20 dmg with 50 dmg % reduction. So rockbiter according to this would give him 60 extra dmg bit op or not?

#15 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:16 PM

View PostStabby Joe, on 06 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

so why does rockbiter vary from 50 to 80 just hs only. May be console not showing all procs? or rockbiter over procing

and his basic hs with no rockbiter should be nowhere near my hs dmg, it should be around 20 dmg with 50 dmg % reduction. So rockbiter according to this would give him 60 extra dmg bit op or not?
Look at ench talent trees and you'll see which talents are the kind of talents that passively increase damage. And what makes you think that without rockbiter the damage should be around 20? That would mean that the damage with 46? AP is 40 while using AK, I'm no coder but I can say that's a bit off.
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
- Cave Johnson

#16 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:22 PM

ok then why is then my hs so low then with 70 atk power?

#17 OFFLINE   Crypt

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:59 PM

I honestly feel like stabby is just pulling numbers out of his ass. An actual test would not happen in game. You didn't mention KPR or at least a slight nerf to you for being 85 while the shaman is 84. You don't mention Sewa's talents which he could be taken stormstrike which reduces your resistance by 4 for each crit which would of course make him hit harder. You don't mention if he has imp rockbiter  and you don't even talk about resists which would be crucial in seeing how much damage he is dealing.

And just to quote
"saying rockbiter is the answer would mean it makes a difference than prolly 50-60 dmg which is alot for such a lowbie spell."

Rockbiter is the answer it is not a lowbie spell it is actually the bread and butter of enhance shamans it is the fireball/ frostbolt combo of shamans it is the fucking reason they do so much damage.
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#18 OFFLINE   Oob

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:09 PM

View PostCrypt, on 06 January 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

I honestly feel like stabby is just pulling numbers out of his ass. An actual test would not happen in game. You didn't mention KPR or at least a slight nerf to you for being 85 while the shaman is 84. You don't mention Sewa's talents which he could be taken stormstrike which reduces your resistance by 4 for each crit which would of course make him hit harder. You don't mention if he has imp rockbiter  and you don't even talk about resists which would be crucial in seeing how much damage he is dealing.

And just to quote
"saying rockbiter is the answer would mean it makes a difference than prolly 50-60 dmg which is alot for such a lowbie spell."

Rockbiter is the answer it is not a lowbie spell it is actually the bread and butter of enhance shamans it is the fireball/ frostbolt combo of shamans it is the fucking reason they do so much damage.

+1 Best post 2014 so far.
Old Hits.
Spoiler

Hatchling #CA : DK should be OP since it is a donator class

Mazz: I will say that YOU are not looking at the talent tree correctly.
Attack Power means nothing for an unholy / frost DK

Nov 14,2013: [WC] You cast Frostbolt at Derek and deal 94 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by: Critical)
Nov 17,2013: (versus mage boss) [WC]You cast Frostbolt at BonBons and deal 165 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by:Critical)
For norm frostbolt of about 40 in this setup I say that is rather good :D..

#19 OFFLINE   Stabby Joe

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:36 PM

so crypt mr smart ass, so why one round he hses me 50 dmg and one 80 dmg, with same weapon by magic? If this is due to mother fkcing rockbite ok, but then his base dmg hs is greater than mine and it never should loook at the fkcing difference, 29 more atk power and over 230 armor but yet he does more dmg. And if I missed the point where hs and crits are dependent on spell dmg then I have more than double than him

#20 OFFLINE   Oob

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:27 AM

View PostStabby Joe, on 06 January 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

so crypt mr smart ass, so why one round he hses me 50 dmg and one 80 dmg, with same weapon by magic? If this is due to mother fkcing rockbite ok, but then his base dmg hs is greater than mine and it never should loook at the fkcing difference, 29 more atk power and over 230 armor but yet he does more dmg. And if I missed the point where hs and crits are dependent on spell dmg then I have more than double than him

You seemed to have not read the multiple posts of 'enhancement shaman can lower enemy's resistance (AKA A DMG BOOST) and can get bonus damage for a short time when critting'...

Quote

And if I missed the point where hs and crits are dependent on spell dmg then I have more than double than him

The shaman's hs crits are dependent mostly on spell damage (imp rockbiter making it from mostly to 75%). Pala hs crits are dependent on all physical damage (aka your attack power).

Doesn't matter if you have double his spell power if none of it is applying to your attacks.

Edited by Oob, 07 January 2014 - 12:29 AM.

Old Hits.
Spoiler

Hatchling #CA : DK should be OP since it is a donator class

Mazz: I will say that YOU are not looking at the talent tree correctly.
Attack Power means nothing for an unholy / frost DK

Nov 14,2013: [WC] You cast Frostbolt at Derek and deal 94 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by: Critical)
Nov 17,2013: (versus mage boss) [WC]You cast Frostbolt at BonBons and deal 165 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by:Critical)
For norm frostbolt of about 40 in this setup I say that is rather good :D..




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