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#1 OFFLINE   stinkyfax

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

I heard few people think Monks are OP.

Please shoot your stories on what is wrong with Monks, as I don't play too often to see myself.
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#2 OFFLINE   HueHueHue

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:02 PM

Monks are too tanky IMO.

I dont know whats causing them to be so tanky but every time ive faced one it feels like my shots are just not going through/damaging him enough.

#3 OFFLINE   BonBons

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:13 PM

You know how shamans get headshots for 200 with 3 procs or something? Monks get those for body shots if they get their talent procs.
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#4 OFFLINE   inf1nity

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:17 PM

When monk has all his proc + crit he do insane damage, even body shot about 200 if you have good gear like 73e, not talking about full 85e...
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#5 OFFLINE   inf1nity

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostHueHueHue, on 07 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Monks are too tanky IMO.

I dont know whats causing them to be so tanky but every time ive faced one it feels like my shots are just not going through/damaging him enough.
Happens due to spell that gives you permanent +20% parry reduction.
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#6 OFFLINE   Klashnekoff

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:21 PM

the fact that they can heal forever and not go "OOM" is a huge problem i think.

Also the Windwalker talent tree seems a little silly as alot of them give % Dmg increases ill list them
Crits increase dmg by 6% stacking up to 10 times
Jabs Increase the dmg of your next tiger palm by 25% No limit on stacks
When you use chi you get 6% dmg per chi used

With these in mind you can get 30% just from using fists of fury with 5 Chi (not that hard to get) on top of that 6% more per crit (most people have 25-30% crit if not more) then your tiger palm will do more
I've been hit for 300 TigerPalm Crit  with a m4

The reason that they can tank so much is due to the armor having alot of stamina on the gear mine is in shop gear with 85 epic weps and ive got 431 hp...
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#7 OFFLINE   Crypt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:45 PM

Just to list a few problems with monk.
DPS monk does way too much damage if you get a proc and close to none if you don't it could take anywhere from 2 shots to 10 shots but all you want to do is proc tiger palm which does a fuck ton of damage.
Tank Monk is relatively balanced at the moment. I would say it is the most balanced monk class right now.
Healer monk can heal and tank a stupid amount which IIRC is what caused paladin to be nerfed. I think right now the monk healer talents are too strong as the T4 for monk basically triples your healing as it basically makes your spammable heal a HOT and an AOE heal at once.

Another thing to not is that monk gear has too good of a stat spread. Due to only needing agility and stamina the gear on monk literally only has those stats which give them stupidly high base amounts. Monks could even lose the agi > SP ratio and still be pretty strong compared to other classes.
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#8 OFFLINE   Fossen

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:53 PM

As people already said they have huge shots just to your body and the fact that all monks have over 450 hp the damage output compared to their hp is insane>.>.  I would be fine if i.e dps monks had much less hp and the same damage or if tanks had less damage.
The healing monk is pretty allright atm as they heal for 10-50 depending on spells.
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#9 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:11 PM

View PostFossen, on 07 December 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

As people already said they have huge shots just to your body and the fact that all monks have over 450 hp the damage output compared to their hp is insane>.>.  I would be fine if i.e dps monks had much less hp and the same damage or if tanks had less damage.
The healing monk is pretty allright atm as they heal for 10-50 depending on spells.

Only if warlocks had even less Hp than monks, that would be good, but no dice.
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#10 OFFLINE   Oob

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostKlashnekoff, on 07 December 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

the fact that they can heal forever and not go "OOM" is a huge problem i think.

Also the Windwalker talent tree seems a little silly as alot of them give % Dmg increases ill list them
Crits increase dmg by 6% stacking up to 10 times
Jabs Increase the dmg of your next tiger palm by 25% No limit on stacks
When you use chi you get 6% dmg per chi used

With these in mind you can get 30% just from using fists of fury with 5 Chi (not that hard to get) on top of that 6% more per crit (most people have 25-30% crit if not more) then your tiger palm will do more
I've been hit for 300 TigerPalm Crit  with a m4

The reason that they can tank so much is due to the armor having alot of stamina on the gear mine is in shop gear with 85 epic weps and ive got 431 hp...

Klash explained it perfectly I think for dps monk.

Another problem though is that Jab and Tiger Palm are both really good, even when you have just shop gear on.

Flying serpent kick seems really powerful. With how quickly monks recharge their energy and the short cooldown monks have it is really good mobility from this talent alone not to mention that the damage from it is good. Combined with the tier1 blossom related monks just zoom around the map kinda like a rogue. Flying serpent kick needs a higher cooldown.

Chi Explosion seems really strong to... being able to do 100 or more non-crit with 5 chi when it is cast. For dps monk chi is easy enough to get because every jab gives 1 chi.

I've stated in another thread that serpent stance aoe heal needs a cooldown. It costing no energy and being an aoe heal spam is strong in its own right. With hardly any gear I could easily get over 20 aoe with the talent that made it only take three hits.

Serene Mist is a really strong talent imho for a healing monk. The main fact being that you can use expel harm on team mates or yourself to heal for 0 health...

Possibly the next strongest talent for healing monk is expel chi. With how much expel harm can be spammed, a 50% chance to get 1 chi can easily give you 5 chi after a very short time... All this time you are casting expel harm, if you have serene mist you are also casting renew mist for free.

Serene mist should probably increase the cast cost of expel harm, possibly 10/15 points.

Healing monk having the ease of getting 5 chi quickly it made me laugh quite a few times to see my 'monk combo skill' (fists of fury etc being on one spell / button) heal for 200+ at times. Healing nerf / healing reduction didn't seem to have too big of an impact against it, I always healed over 150hp it seemed regardless of who I fought. This is probably due to Thunder Focus Tea being very strong.

Brewmaster related: It is good to see the shield got removed, it was just insane at times x.x...

In general: Every monk talent setup seems to have access to or really easy access to a percentage health restore. This is possibly the biggest mistake for the monk class. After that would probably be that all monks (regardless of their spec) have both a high parry chance and parry reduction. %Health heals and the high parry chance + reduction makes monks have a heck of a lot more effective health, and like stated before monks can easily have over 400 hp (this is with shop gear...).

Two stances alone have a large health heal, tier1 brew has a %heal from max health from jab, healing brew tier3 is an auto %health restore, and windwalker has a tier2 for 20% health restore on kill (afterlife + high mobility).

I've said it a few times, monk is op not with gear but with talents. Better gear just makes a monk more over powered.
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Hatchling #CA : DK should be OP since it is a donator class

Mazz: I will say that YOU are not looking at the talent tree correctly.
Attack Power means nothing for an unholy / frost DK

Nov 14,2013: [WC] You cast Frostbolt at Derek and deal 94 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by: Critical)
Nov 17,2013: (versus mage boss) [WC]You cast Frostbolt at BonBons and deal 165 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by:Critical)
For norm frostbolt of about 40 in this setup I say that is rather good :D..

#11 OFFLINE   Oob

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostFossen, on 07 December 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

...
The healing monk is pretty allright atm as they heal for 10-50 depending on spells.

This is the amount all monks can heal for, not healing monks.... Healing monks do a lot more. Ever see tiny get 2k + heal just spamming his expel harm and Revival?
Old Hits.
Spoiler

Hatchling #CA : DK should be OP since it is a donator class

Mazz: I will say that YOU are not looking at the talent tree correctly.
Attack Power means nothing for an unholy / frost DK

Nov 14,2013: [WC] You cast Frostbolt at Derek and deal 94 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by: Critical)
Nov 17,2013: (versus mage boss) [WC]You cast Frostbolt at BonBons and deal 165 damage with a slowdown effect (Affected by:Critical)
For norm frostbolt of about 40 in this setup I say that is rather good :D..

#12 OFFLINE   Evander

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:41 PM

I think that Monk is the "ultimate" class. It has absolutely no bad sides. Huge damage, extremly good survivability and very decent healing. For Mages/Shamans huge damage output is sacrificed by extremly low survivability, tanks have their tankiness bought by the price of low DPS. Monk is a mix of everything. + the aspect of free healing, which is not available for anyone except them.
Also notice there are not many full 85 epic Monks as it is with other classes.
This class is just too strong at the moment.

#13 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:42 PM

Even DPS has good survivability , not to mention the other two
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#14 OFFLINE   inf1nity

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostWookie, on 07 December 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Even DPS has good survivability , not to mention the other two
With this 50% parry reduction=/
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#15 OFFLINE   Tas

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:22 PM

didnt bother reading all :D but my wlock thinks this:


WC] Sewa <3彡 deals 236 damage to You (Affected by: Critical, Jab, Tiger Palm)
[


thats ak, btw :D

Edited by Tas, 07 December 2013 - 10:23 PM.

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#16 OFFLINE   Wookie

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostTas, on 07 December 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

didnt bother reading all :D but my wlock thinks this:


WC] Sewa <3彡 deals 236 damage to You (Affected by: Critical, Jab, Tiger Palm)
[


thats ak, btw :D
I was going to quote you to say "Please tell me that was not on a weapon like ak/m4" but you ninja-edited
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#17 OFFLINE   killakenny

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

They don't have a counterpart.
Making more dmg than rogue and healing more than priest.
And everyone is playing this.

I don't play atm because my rogue deals 3-6 dmg to them, hf gg.
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#18 OFFLINE   HueHueHue

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostTas, on 07 December 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

didnt bother reading all :D but my wlock thinks this:


WC] Sewa <3彡 deals 236 damage to You (Affected by: Critical, Jab, Tiger Palm)
[


thats ak, btw :D

I did 515 AK headshot on my Pala once with all procs and a crit, nerf.

#19 OFFLINE   Raging

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:02 AM

View Postkillakenny, on 07 December 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

They don't have a counterpart.
Making more dmg than rogue and healing more than priest.
And everyone is playing this.

I don't play atm because my rogue deals 3-6 dmg to them, hf gg.

They do have a counterpart, but you're just too dumb to play as a team.
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#20 OFFLINE   BonBons

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:10 AM

My shaman beats some/most Monks. It might just be that my horrid aim is better than theirs but I mean its close or a win fight every time.
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