13 replies to this topic

[Tristen]

What would you think of in terms of Fairness and Usefulness if sprint & vanish were changed in these ways:

1) When you vanish while already sprinting you reduce the cool-down of sprint by 30% of it's maximum cool-down (not current timer)
1) Using "Vanish" reduces the cool-down of Sprint by 30%
2) When you sprint while already vanished you reduce the cool-down of vanish by 30% of it's maximum cool-down (also not current timer)
2) Using "Sprint" reduces the cool-down of Vanish by 30%
3) Using Sprint makes you lose Vanish Effect; Using Vanish makes you lose Sprint effect.
4) Increase the vanish duration from 6 seconds to 9 seconds.
5) While vanished your move speed is reduced by 15%.
** (travel distance would be greater even with speed reduction, would be worth 7.65 seconds of your normal move speed)
6) Increase "break damage" from 40 to (100 or 40% Max Rogue HP, whichever is greater).
6) Increase "break damage" from 40 to 100.
7) Increase vanish cool-down from 30 to 35 seconds.

I am creating a Poll which is about the 7 things listed above, Discuss below

Edited by Tristen, 11 September 2012 - 11:20 AM.
adjusting due to feedback.

[stinkyfax]

4 - Idea of reducing speed during vanished! That's what we need
1-3 overcomplicating, people wil be confused nor I see the necessity in this.
6 - I would wait with this unless vanish becomes weak.
7 - we are moving away from long cooldown spells, they make game less dynamic.

[Tristen]

stinkyfax, on 11 September 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

4 - Idea of reducing speed during vanished! That's what we need
1-3 overcomplicating, people wil be confused nor I see the necessity in this.
6 - I would wait with this unless vanish becomes weak.
7 - we are moving away from long cooldown spells, they make game less dynamic.

Adjusted original post based on feedback and the need for SIMPLE wording, something I'm not always good at.

#1&2 I originally wanted the cooldown reduction to only happen if the person was in one of the effects and was a trade-off for losing it early.
#3 I feel this supports #4 as people do sometimes combine sprint & vanish and I do not see a way for a person to run as fast as they can... and stay stealthy/invisible/quiet
#4 I agree, though only if #5 goes in there too, the idea is that while vanished you must be careful and sneak or else become visible, hence the speed reduction... though the trade-off is increased duration for invisibility enough so that rogues get additional travel distance out of the deal.
#6 Only reason I had the break damage increase there is because of AoE spells easily reaching this number with 1-2 uses and to slightly help rogues who are sneaking into a firefight from taking a stray bullet.
#7 Really only wanted increased cool-down time if all the other changes were going into effect as encouragement to use sprint instead of saving it.

[Tristen]

Double post FTW

I'm going to go to bed for 5:30 hours I'll check the forums again and reply to any questions then. G'nite!

[stinkyfax]

Sprint leaves sparks behind feet, so it's not just an advantage.
We could slightly change sprint mechanics, and if it's used during vanish person gets +% to speed while he is vanished rather than Normal + %.. So if it's 0.85 and bonus is +20% we are talking about ~1.03% normal speed vanish+sprint and don't forget the sparks they'll be leaving.
Then we also want to make sure enabling vanish doesn't completely break sprint which might be hard to do programatically.

+duration is reasonable.
Ok instead of 40 hp we could have something around 20%, not 40% for sure

[Tristen]

The only real problem I have with Sprint while Vanish is that they just don't go together, I mean you are either sneaking or you are running but shouldn't be both... you ever try?

My opinion at least would be to make Vanish & Sprint opposite sides of a coin, can't have both.

When I do the whole "Spy vs. Spy" thing at work and sneak in through the lobby I really have to move carefully or they notice me.

[stinkyfax]

Tristen, on 11 September 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

The only real problem I have with Sprint while Vanish is that they just don't go together, I mean you are either sneaking or you are running but shouldn't be both... you ever try?

My opinion at least would be to make Vanish & Sprint opposite sides of a coin, can't have both.

When I do the whole "Spy vs. Spy" thing at work and sneak in through the lobby I really have to move carefully or they notice me.

Mkay, I agree with you. vanish shouldn't be used as rushing ability like now.

[katze]

I don't really like the idea of getting a speed "penalty" for using vanish, even if duration and vanish break limit is increased. There are already so many other restrictions to it. You can't carry bomb, defkit, sidearm, grenade, and you can be seen, at least partially in radar, from blod splats when hit, sparks when using sprint, and you become a magnet to everything that is lying on the ground, and it breaks when hitting people. Warlocks can hit a vanished/stealthed rogue with their spells from a mile away even if they are pointed 90 deg to another direction. Immolate gives you a nice forever lasting beacon. Mages have less of these restrictions from what I remember, at least when it comes to the ability to carry bomb, kit, sidearms etc. This is a big let down for rogues.

The vanish/sprint cd reduction thing just makes things more complicated. As a rogue I wouldn't want to sacrifice 15% movement speed w/vanish for this, even if the duration is increased. Rogues are not necessarily hard to spot, especially not for experienced players. They need their speed. Make some changes to the current restrictions to vanish and some of these changes could be right. I can't imagine rogue would be more fun to play, not to play against with these changes.

[stinkyfax]

w00t? why did you decide to post it not in dev board? So that Rogues come along and say "Nooo, don't nerf us!"

[Sirchipnsalsa]

stinkyfax, on 11 September 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

w00t? why did you decide to post it not in dev board? So that Rogues come along and say "Nooo, don't nerf us!"

Because experienced players' opinion should matter to you?
Also, this is a poll... What's the point in making a poll for like 4 people?
_{inb4 this gets misunderstood and twisted into something I didn't say at all.}

[stinkyfax]

Sirchipnsalsa, on 11 September 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Because experienced players' opinion should matter to you?
Also, this is a poll... What's the point in making a poll for like 4 people?
_{inb4 this gets misunderstood and twisted into something I didn't say at all.}

Okay, I'll let Tristen listen to experienced rogues concerned his question about nerfing vanish.
Imma out of this topic

[katze]

stinkyfax, on 11 September 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

w00t? why did you decide to post it not in dev board? So that Rogues come along and say "Nooo, don't nerf us!"

I recently registered to the new forums, but I'm quite sure I asked why rogue invisibility didn't work more like mage invisibility concerning carrying bomb, kit, sidearm earlier, at least as an input to a thread. Probably in the old forum. I could've put it up for debate earlier, no doubt.

Edit: I understand you have certain options and have left to pick out which ones will be kept in the next update, and that there is a deadline for deciding which. I won't put sticks into the wheels if you've already decided to make one or more of these changes. My ideas can be discussed at a later point.

[stinkyfax]

katze, on 11 September 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I recently registered to the new forums, but I'm quite sure I asked why rogue invisibility didn't work more like mage invisibility concerning carrying bomb, kit, sidearm earlier, at least as an input to a thread. Probably in the old forum. I could've put it up for debate earlier, no doubt.

It was designed to have difference between invisibility and Stealth. Invisibility means magical strength making object invisible. Stealth means someone is playing with your perception / hiding in shadows / etc. The issue with kit,bomb are valve engine, using the fix as in Invisibility will also make footsteps/anything rogue doing be unnoticed leading to 100% advantage of rogues.

[Aurora]

Also fairly sure there is no such 'hax'-fix for sidearms when just stealthing, so the two skills fits nicely with each other.